Robert Spencer on C-Span – There are Moderate Muslims there is no Moderate Islam
Rober Spencer, author of the Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades and founder of JihadWatch and DhimmiWatch, was interviewed by Brian Lamb from the show Q&A a couple of weeks ago and the interview was televised this evening.
Spencer answers were thoroughly enlightening and presented the true nature of Islam, the nature the MSM and politicians refuse to face.
Here are a few highlights:
LAMB: Is he comparing Mein Kempf with the Koran?
SPENCER: I think he is.
LAMB: Is that fair?
SPENCER: Well, I think that both can be and have been used as mandates for and blueprints for violent activity. And certainly the Koran differs from Mein Kempf in the respect that it has also been revered as a holy book by people who have not been engaged in violence against their neighbors, particularly in West Africa, and Eastern Europe, and Central Asia over various periods.
And up into the modern period in some of those places we find that Muslims lived peacefully with non-Muslims neighbors and they did not pursue these doctrines of jihad. But because these doctrines of jihad are rooted in the Koran they are – these populations are vulnerable today to recruitment by jihadists from Saudi Arabia, from Iran, from elsewhere who come and say look, we’re representing the fullness and the truth, the purity of Islam. Here is what the Koran actually says, here is what the hadeeth say and so if you want to be a true Muslim you have to wage this violent warfare.
And here is the variation of the famous “there are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam” statement:
The problem that the world faces and the problem that the Muslim communities of the West face as well as the Muslim communities in the Islamic world face is that the terrorists are taking the teachings of the Koran and the teachings of Islamic theology and law that mandate violence and are running with them. And it is very difficult to formulate a case on – solely on Muslim ground to say that that’s illegitimate.
And so while there are moderate Muslims, the fact that Islam is not moderate makes it very difficult for those moderates to establish any kind of large scale anti-terror effort.
You can watch or read the transcript of the show here.
Response to Tariqnelson
Tariqnelson responded to my post about urging Muslim leaders to issue fatwas against Osama bin Laden (OBL). Given the length of my response I’m posting it on the front page.
The previous Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baz, who died before 9/11, and other scholars condemned him by name and condemned the Hamas suicide murders on civilians (Muslim and non-Muslim) and the spreading of chaos years before 9/11
I am looking for fatwas that leave no room for taqiyya or kitman. Rather than take your word on it I would like to read the contents of their statements. Can you send me links to them?
Saudi Arabia has long been opposed to Bin Laden
Can you provide evidence that “Saudi hate literature being distributed from American mosques, and the Saudi madrasa-building in Asia has completely stopped (hat tip jihadwatch)?
And remember in Saudi Arabia, as in other places, passages in the Koran such as the notorious “Verse of the Sword” in sura 9:5 (“slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush”) is used for jihadi recruitment.
Not fans of the above people
By “people” you mean Wahhabis/Salafis, the Sunni fundamentalist Islamic movement that OBL adheres to.
but the point here is to illustrate that this was done BEFORE 9/11
I scanned the document for all OBL references and I did not see a fatwa issued against him. Where is the unequivocal condemnation of OBL’s jihad?
I did not see a single fatwa against OBL for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The closest I saw was a single instance by Spanish Muslim leaders for the Spanish terrorist attack, but not for the 9/11 attacks. Furthermore and disappointingly they did not refute OBL’s interpretation of the Koran and Hadith. As Robert Spencer points out “until there is a REFUTATION of their arguments, their arguments will continue to be effective. Your sources have not refuted them, but ignored them”.
By the way the top link at the link you provided was written by the terrorist front group CAIR so its credibility is in serious question.
Your link does not provide evidence that a fatwa against OBL occurred.
I hate Bin Laden, Hamas, “Hizbullah” and other groups and their evil actions,
I applaud what you’ve said, but can you refute OBL’s arguments on Islamic grounds?
and other Muslims have stated as much (again, long before 9/11).
Are the other Muslims following mainstream Islamic interpretations? What are these other Muslims doing to stop the worldwide abominable terrorist acts that are continuing to be justified on Islamic grounds?
While I feel that we as Muslims have not come out strongly enough against the likes of Hamas and “Hizbullah
Indeed, and what you’ve said is a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately your feelings have not dissuaded the Muslim terrorists from continuing their jihad against the West.
UPDATE: 8/22/06 12:37am
Tariqnelson has responded in the comments section of this post. What follows is my response to him.
First off, thanks for responding.
First it seems that you do not understand the meaning of ‘fatwa’. It seems (and correct me if I am wrong) that you think that ‘fatwa’ is a death decree.
I do know what fatwa means. Here is a backgrounder for my readers. Please keep in mind that vacuous fatwas which do not condemn the Islamic extremism ideology that has spawned Islamic terrorism do not count.
[josephnadir] it is absolutely shocking that American Muslim leaders have not yet issued one [fatwa] against the enemy.
[tariqnelson] There have been several anti-Bin Laden fatwas/statements issued since long BEFORE 9/11
It appears that you are conflating fatwas with mere statements of condemnation which do not carry the weight of a religious edict.
What I’ve been looking for is a fatwa clearly and unequivocally condemning OBL for the 9/11 attacks, not a statement which does not carry the weight of an Islamic legal pronouncement. I’m willing to settle for a fatwa against OBL’s jihad against America, so feel free to find an example of that as well.
They all condemned terror attacks
A condemnation does not carry the legal weight of a fatwa. I did not find a fatwa in the link you provided.
After 9/11, many have condemned the 9/11 attacks and other attacks, including the Mufti of Saudi Arabia, who not only condemned the 9/11 attacks, but also the London bombings and every other attack. Also see this
Where are the fatwas? Recall condemnation ≠ fatwa
And likewise, for you to say that Muslims have not said anything condemning terrorism is a gross distortion
It looks like you are trying to build a straw man argument. I never said what you claim I have said.
but if you are amongst those who think genocide should be commited
Of course I am not one of those people and I would never advocate any of the evil things you mentioned.
I simply come from a perspective that while there are moderate Muslims I do not see the evidence to support that there is a moderate Islam.
You and I both know that we could similarly take verses of the Bible
First off, the sheer scale of the monstrous acts of barbarism committed in the name of Islam dwarfs that which is committed illogically in the name of Christianity. Just look at all of the cases of Muslims committing acts of terrorism around the world and the support they receive in the Muslim community. Look at the non-response the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), which represent 56 Muslim states, gave when challenged to condemn all of those who kill or call upon others to kill in the name of God or religion:
—
The next morning (Friday, 18 August), Pakistan’s Ambassador Masood Khan – speaking for the OIC countries – addressed the Sub-Commission. He did not refer to our appeal that the OIC condemn: “all those who kill or call upon others to kill in the name of God or religion,” as well as an “an unambiguous condemnation of those who are defaming Islam by their calls to kill in the name of Allah.” Rather, he spoke about “the Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) caricatures in a Danish paper last year,” and stated: “In the recent past, terrorist attacks, or even terrorist plots, have been used as a pretext to demonize Islam and Muslims… Muslims are being dehumanized as Jews were during the inter-war years in the last century. The spectre of Islamophobia is haunting Europe.” He also stated: “The OIC believes that the existing gaps in the international law – soft or hard – to combat defamation of religions and to promote respect for each others beliefs should be stepped up.” He concluded: “In the Islamic world, endeavours are being made to wage political and ideological struggles against the forces of obscurantism and extremism. Last year in Makkah, the OIC announced its 10-year programme for the promotion and protection of human rights. It will also elaborate [an] OIC Charter on Human Rights.” There can be little doubt that any such a Charter will be conditional on Shariah law (see the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam, articles 24 and 25), in total contradiction to the 1948 Universal Declaration on Human Rights.
—
and use it [verses of the Bible] out of context
There is a very important distinction to be made between interpreting verses in a logical way versus an illogical way. There is no verse in the Bible which can taken in context logically be interpreted to commit anything remotely similar to the Muslim terrorist acts. From all appearances, from the worldwide terrorist acts committed in the name of Islam to the lack of fatwas which condemn on Islamic grounds the ideology that has spawned Islamic terrorism, the Koran’s verse of the sword in context together with the Islamic jurisprudence are being logically interpreted.
Many from the Aryan Nation and “Christian Identity use the Bible to recruit as well.
Your implicit contention that racist groups using the Bible to recruit and Muslim terrorist using Islam to recruit are akin to each other is simply not true for multiple reasons:
- There is no logical Biblical interpretation for racism
- Racist organizations are universally condemned by the Christian community
- Aryan Nation and Christian Identity is a fringe group whose number of racist acts or membership numbers do not even begin to compare to either the number Muslim terrorist acts or the number of terrorist supporters
I don’t expect you to answer for them
Thank you 
I don’t expect you to answer for Muslim terrorists either, but I wish peaceful Muslims were more successful at challenging terrorists on Islamic grounds and preventing Muslims from becoming terrorists.
[josephnadir] I scanned the document for all OBL references and I did not see a fatwa issued against him. Where is the unequivocal condemnation of OBL’s jihad?
[tariqnelson] Seems that you must have overlooked it. Here are a few
I have to ask because it seems you are now being deliberately misleading are you practicing taqiyya?
I was responding to this link which you provided as evidence of a fatwa against OBL and I still don’t see any fatwa.
The three new links you’ve provided have no fatwas whatsoever.
See above.
None of the links you’ve provided contain a fatwa. Prove me wrong if you believe otherwise. You definitely appear to be practicing taqiyya and if so it is not going to work.
There was a blizzard of condemnations, fatwas and other statements against OBL and the 9/11 attacks.
I found a single instance here of a fatwa against OBL for the Spanish terrorist attack. This is a far cry from your claim.
To say there was no comdemnation at all
I never said that. Stop building a straw man.
Most refutations are done in the Arabic language (and yes I know Arabic) and there are many entire books written refuting the Khawarij (terrorist) methodology that OBL believes in.
Please don’t take it the wrong way, but I’m not going to take your word for it. American Muslims and Muslims living in the West have a HUGE motivation to clean up their image and I would find it stunning that there are so few translations if there were so many arguments in existence. In light of this what you say is hard to swallow.
this is a translation of one small refutation of their arguments. This one was written before 9/11
You did not dispute my claim that the fatwa issued against OBL for the Spanish terrorist attack did not contain a refutation of OBL’s interpretation of the Koran or Hadith.
In these two links I see no refutation of OBL’s interpretation either.
we soundly refute them on Islamic grounds
Really? I’m very interested in these arguments. Can you point me to them?
While people such as yourself talked about last week’s plot to bomb several airplanes, one thing lost in the entire affair is that it was a Muslim who helped unravel the plot.
That is wonderful. It would be even better if other Muslims stopped issuing veiled threats in response to this Muslim terrorist plot.
Muslims are integral parts in stopping terrorist attacks from happening
I wholeheartedly agree. Furthermore, I think Muslims arguing on Islamic grounds against OBL and the rest of those who support a jihad against the West would do much to combat Muslim terrorism. In many respects the spiritual and ideological battle against these individuals is more important than the physical one.
If we declare all Muslims to be the enemy, then we will lose many allies in this fight against those that are truely evil.
I agree.
Secondly, others are refuting the arguments of the terrorists on Islamic grounds. These things need to be spread amongst the Muslims
Again I wholeheartedly agree with you brother.
It would be a huge mistake to commit complete genocide against all the Muslims
Absolutely true.
The terrorists use people like her and her statements as fodder for recruitment
That may be true, but the moral culpability lies squarely on the Muslim terrorist, not the one who used words that they disliked.
If American goes to the genocide strategy that some are calling for
This is not a real concern. No one in our government is advocating that. Furthermore, I don’t believe it will ever happen.
The Fatwa Against Osama bin Laden
Too often after a terrorist plot occurs or is foiled Muslim organizations rush to warn us of the dangers of Islamophobia or issue vague and/or misleading condemnations of the use of violence against “innocent lives” instead of clearly and unequivocally stating their alliance with the United States in its war on Muslim terrorists.
In light of the murderous atrocity committed in the name of Islam by terrorists on 9/11 Muslim leaders left and right should have done what was the morally self-evident thing to do: issue a fatwa (i.e., religious edict) against the perpetrators and their supporters. In light of the events that have triggered other fatwas, such as the call for the assassination of Salman Rushdie for publishing a book, it is absolutely shocking that American Muslim leaders have not yet issued one against the enemy.
The time has come to doggedly ask Muslim leaders to issue a fatwa condemning prominent Muslim terrorists like Osama bin Laden and his right hand man Ayman al-Zawahiri. This is exactly what the the United American Committee (UAC) is doing.
The UAC’s next move is to ask the leadership of the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, CA to push for a fatwa condemning bin Laden and other terrorists by name. I encourage all freedom loving people to support the UAC’s efforts.
